Samuel Kelley and James Simmons

Published on December 30, 2018

Simmons' and Kelley's word clouds ". . . we had an athletic program here. Our baseball team was as good as any. The Black Barons were known then and we played them twice and they didn’t beat us. We did, we had a third game scheduled, but they didn’t want to be bothered with the miners (laughs) see."

The following is an excerpt of a longer interview with Mr. Kelley and Mr. Simmons. The full transcript for this interview can be accessed in Samford Special Collection.

Chapters

Childhood and Early Life

Samuel Kelley recalls stories from his early life.

Play Segment

Race Relations in Docena

Samuel Kelley describes segregation in coal mining towns, including Docena.

Play Segment

TCI Services and the Depression

Samuel Kelley explains his son’s skull fracture injury and details TCI’s methods of support during the Depression.

Play Segment

Forming the Union

Samuel Kelley describes the difficulties in forming the union and the hardships his father faced as a union man.

Play Segment

Transcript

BELINDA MARDIS: My name is Belinda Mardis, I'm your interviewer today and
we're interviewing Mr. Kelley on the Docena mines. Mr. Kelley, how long have you
been living in Docena?

SAMUEL KELLEY: I've been living here since '28.

BELINDA MARDIS: At what age did you enter the mines?

SAMUEL KELLEY: I entered the mines at the age of twelve.

BELINDA MARDIS: What was it like for you?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Ma'am?

BELINDA MARDIS: What was it like for you, going in the mines at that age?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Oh. It is kinda, quite an experience. I, being the son of a
miner, growing up in a mining town, that was what I was looking forward to, as
being a miner, it is quite an experience, the beginning of it.

BELINDA MARDIS: Are there any particular incidents that, when you remember that
time, that just stick out in your mind?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Yes, I never will forget one incident, I and my brother were
working in the mines. He was about maybe six years older than I were. And we
were working at a place, the fact of the business is it weren't supposed to be
working, it was unsafe. But by him being in the mines a little but longer than I
was he could kind of take care of me but somehow or rather he went somewhere and
left me in a place in there by myself. I never will forget that experience and
the rock went to falling and he had to grab me and pull me backwards and before
he died, me and him often talked about it. If it hadn't been for that, I'd have
been covered up because I would run right into it, 'cause it made such a noise,
it scared me. That was the first I'd heard of a rock fall and see, he was used
to it. And instead of me going the other way, I'd more than that would've went
right into the rock fall and that was one experience I never will forget, him
coming to me and dragging me away from the rock and the rock no doubt, I'd went
right into it but, you see, he pulled me away. So later years we used to always
talk about it, I always give him credit, I told him just before he died in St.
Louis, he saved my life twice. When we were boys at Republic we used to go
huckleberry picking, up on the hill, and I had a bucket and he had a bucket and
we was up there just picking huckleberries and all at once a gang of
rattlesnakes around there. You know they liked huckleberries. And one started
buzzing you know and that nearly scared me to death, I didn't know what to do.
And the thing there was just going, fact of the business. I didn't see it and it
was right there about three or four feet of me and he just calmly come up right
beside of me. He pulled me away, that time (laughs), I never will forget those
two things.

BELINDA MARDIS: I know... Well, when the union started, was the main purpose for
the safety in the mines?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Yes, partly for safety and partly for a wage increase, better
working conditions; that was one of the things we was striking for and
recognition of the union. The condition, sometimes we went in the mines and we
had an outlay of about four foot--a seam of coal like that (indicating from
the floor) and a foot and a half or two foot of water was in there-- Well, if
you wanted to work you got on in that water-- If you wanted to make your family
living, see.

BELINDA MARDIS: What was your job in the mine? What did you do?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Well, I did a mighty whole lot of things. But my first year I was just an
ordinary coal loader and then the man'll tell you quick, "If you don't want that--"

BELINDA MARDIS: "Get on."

SAMUEL KELLEY: "--you know what to do."

BELINDA MARDIS: Do you remember anybody who had the job of pinning the mine?
Seeing that the ceiling didn't come down and things like that?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Yes, yes; I worked right long side of men that supposed to
been--they call them timber men now don't they (gesturing to Mr. Simmons). Ah
huh, yes, that's the-- Now when I first went into the mines we used the wooden
timber. But now late years they using, mostly now what you call a steel
timber... You drill it right up. It's a little thing about like that 'bout six
foot, you drill it up. But when I first went in the mines we had timber. When
those timbers begin to break it's time to leave. That rock is coming down.

BELINDA MARDIS: During the time when you were coming up, how prominent was
segregation in the mining town?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Well, it's always been 'bout the same. They would talk and go on
with you, but that was just about it.

BELINDA MARDIS: They drawed the line...

SAMUEL KELLEY: Now in my late years I've had foremans... They still living,
that's reason, I say, maybe I shouldn't call them names. But I had foremans
right here now that I was working under them and I had to do their jobs for them
and I had to do their jobs for them. They weren't able. We had foremans here
couldn't read and write. And was over men.

BELINDA MARDIS: Did you notice a big difference in the houses?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Oh yes, big difference in the houses. In houses and the
schooling. Well as I said, I will always give this company credit. They always
did keep a nice place for the employees to stay. And the schools were some of
the finest. Other companies didn't put out the money like that. This company
carried an athletic program. It was good as any, 'cause at the time I was coming
up, we had an athletic program here. Our baseball team was as good as any. The
Black Barons were known then and we played them twice and they didn't beat us.
We did, we had a third game scheduled, but they didn't want to be bothered with
the miners (laughs) see. And through all the years down, they did maintain a
good athletic program until after we organized. When we organized they cut all
that out. They cut the schools out. They turned the schools back over there into
the county. But they had their own schools before the union came in. But after
the union came in they just turned everything loose then.

BELINDA MARDIS: Do you remember a lot about the dispensary and canteens?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Yes, they always did provide two doctors, couple of nurses and a
dentist. That was for the employees. And they provided a big hospital over there
on that Fairfield Lloyd Noland, that was where our sick and our hurt. That's
where they would take the employees. That was employees' hospital. Well, at the
time it was considered one of the best in the country cause my son had a
fractured skull. He stayed over there nearly two years and they did a remarkable
job on him at that time. Because at that time they didn't have experienced
doctors to go into him. If it had happened now they got doctors now would've
went right on in there. And they did me some mighty good deeds over there with
them, they sent to New Orleans and got a brain specialist, weren't too many in
this part of the country then, They called me and my wife in for consultation
and told us about his condition about for an operation and they told us his
chance would be about a million in one if we wanted to take the chance, but we
wouldn't do it. So he does pretty good now, But at times he has those blackouts.
He fell from a truck and he was nine years old and he's 51 now. And he's been
under my care, my wife's care, I lost my wife last year. We'd taken care of him
all that time, it was kind of rough 'cause after the children got grown and
left--one of us had to kind of stick around with him, all the time. He's
supposed to need someone pretty close around him, but he's doing fine now.

BELINDA MARDIS: Good.

SAMUEL KELLEY: He went to school till he was hurt. And all my other children,
they finished the grammar school here and went on to Westfield before it was
closed down. So I can say they really had some nice schools.

BELINDA MARDIS: Around the time of the Depression, when you remember about the
pity slips and all...

SAMUEL KELLEY: ...oh yes, now that was...

BELINDA MARDIS: Do you remember anything they called clacker?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Yes.

BELINDA MARDIS: What was that?

SAMUEL KELLEY: It was a littly ole brown metal piece of money. They had it in
fifty cents, in dollars, quarters, and dimes. That's what you paid off in, clacker.

BELINDA MARDIS: What about your house note then?

SAMUEL KELLEY: It was-- Oh, the house notes was just reasonable. This house was
rented to me for seven dollars and something a month with the water and lights
throwed in. Yes, the electricity didn't cost you no more. Just my whole total
rent was seven dollars and something.

BELINDA MARDIS: Could you pay that in clacker?

SAMUEL KELLEY: No, they would cut that. You worked, and you were cut that.
They'd cut that, see.

JAMES SIMMONS: I believe they cut it out of two paydays didn't they.

SAMUEL KELLEY: Yes, I worked here after my boy was hurt over there, I was paying
twenty-five dollars a week for his hospital 'cause he had a ten-thousand dollars
hospital bill and at that time I was I the higher bracket, what you call "peck
call." That was a few men here doing that specialty of work and if you made 50
dollars a week, you was up in the bracket. You was considered one of these
people. And they allowed me ten percent cash money, what I drawed, If I made 40
dollars, I drawed four dollars. That was very two weeks, If I made 50 dollars I
drawed five dollars. And they let me have commissary trade with the clacker
about fifteen or eighteen dollars and the other would go to that hospital over
there. I lived like that. Took care of my family. But it was a law during that
time say you had to draw ten percent of your money in cash. And that's all I was
drawing for a long time, just that ten percent.

BELINDA MARDIS: During that time did they give you flour? Do you remember that?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Yes, during the Depression. During the Depression they issued us
flour, meal, rice, and stuff like that.

BELINDA MARDIS: During the time you were trying to organize the union, could you
tell something about the strikes?

SAMUEL KELLEY: Yes, that was one of the toughest times because we had to just
dodge around and meet at different houses. I remember the first meeting we had
concerning organizing was a house about three or four doors from me. The company
had what they called guards and things-- Policemen. They sneaked around all up
under the house and fact of the business, they fired about three or four of
them. I was lucky, I didn't get fired but I still, I was involved in it all the
way down. And the man we first we first set up as the president of our local,
Robertson, he was what they call a pump in the mine and they claimed--he hadn't
ever been to sleep in the mine--they say they caught him asleep the next day
after the meeting and fired him see. Well, ain't nothing nobody could do.

BELINDA MARDIS: No.

SAMUEL KELLEY: See. No union or nothing. And then finally we'd go to meetings
over here by Mulga all alongside the road. They wouldn't let us meet in no hall
or nothing until we got enough to petition for a charter. And with the help of
this fellow I was telling you about, Walter Jones, he was a great orator. Ah, he
could give these companies the devil, he could speak, you know. And people would
come from just miles to hear him and then they got to thinking maybe it is
something in what he was saying. And during that time, the International sent a
man down from Indiana, William Mitch. His son is over there now a lawyer,
William Mitch, Jr. And here 'fore it was a union long before my time 'cause my
uncle used to tell me about. But always the presidents would sell out to the
companies. And that used to keep it broke up. Because my uncle used to tell me
about the 1908 strike. He said they all sold out to the company. And he said he
walked around ten years blackballed before he could get a job and he was the one
told me about how he said I was a baby, I was born in 1907 and he said I was in
a tent. The tent was cut down on me. They'd evict us out of the house. And he
said the governor of Alabama had the troops, Braggs, Braxton Braggs [Braxton
Bragg Comer] was a villain at that time and had them people cut down right over
there about eight miles from here.

Audio Information
Attribute	Value
Interviewer	Belinda Mardis
Interviewee	James Simmons
Repository	Samford University Oral History Collection
Accession	SUHist/TCI/006