Beeson Podcast, Episode #689 Sandon & Megan Ward Date >>Announcer: Welcome to the Beeson podcast, coming to you from Beeson Divinity School on the campus of Samford University. Now your host, Doug Sweeney. >>Doug Sweeney: Welcome to the Beeson Podcast. I am your host, Doug Sweeney. I am joined today by two good friends: Beeson alum, Sandon Ward, and his wife, Dr. Megan Ward. Both Sandon and Megan are interested in discipleship ministry. They’re also interested in medical ministry – both at home and around the world. They’re here talking today with me because they both presented just a little over a month ago in our Global Voices series. It was a very edifying experience for all of us, myself included, who were present. We want to share that experience and the stories that they told as a word of encouragement to our listeners. So, Sandon and Megan, thank you very much for being with us. Let’s start just by introducing you briefly to our podcast audience. Tell them just a little bit about how you grew up, how you came to know the Lord, and how you got into the business of thinking both at the same time about spiritual ministry to people and physical medical ministry to people and maybe Sandon since you’re our Beeson guy, we’ll start with you. >>Sandon: Sure. I did not grow up actually in a religious household. I grew up to more Agnostic parents. Some concept of God but no knowledge of Jesus. That changed towards the end of high school where I got a hold of a Bible and just kind of read it cover to cover. And was honestly pretty confused about it. I actually met Megan around that time, had some other friends who were Christians who kind of helped me understand more about Jesus. So, college was a really formative time for me, both in academics but also spiritually. So, that’s really where I began to kind of work through and parse through my faith, and would say I really became a Christian then. But to get into the latter part of your question, I was also a nursing major. It just seemed like a good major to choose because I wasn’t sure exactly what I wanted to do. So, chose that and ended up being I guess kind of academically gifted in that sphere. So, graduated nursing school. Megan and I got married right around that time. And then entered the work force. >>Doug Sweeney: Okay, you had met in college or? >>Sandon: We actually met in high school. >>Doug Sweeney: Met in high school. >>Doug Sweeney: I met my wife in high school, too! >>Sandon: Yeah, dated long distance, went to different colleges, kind of went through that entire ordeal. >>Doug Sweeney: Before we turn to Megan, how did you get from all of that and practicing as a nurse to coming to Beeson? Why did you decide seminary was going to be part of the mix for you? >>Sandon: Sure. Yeah. I worked I guess for about five, six years prior to coming to Beeson full time as a nurse. By the end of my college experience when I would really say I was a Christian I had some opportunities to be involved with but also tangentially lead little things for campus ministry. So, seminary had always been at the back of my head. But I think it was more of when I began to contemplate maybe there could be some calling to vocational ministry I was months away from graduation with a nursing degree. I thought I should stay that course. And that course ended up being I think really fruitful and beneficial working in oncology first, working with cancer, and really being able to talk about Jesus to those who were critically ill and dying. As far as the transition into Beeson, again for years while I worked seminary was at the back of my head. I was thinking about it a fair amount. And then like for many people, the pandemic helped open some eyes. So, I had gone into the ICU to help there, worked in the ICU for a year and a half. Lots of death, lots of dying. It helped me realize that I did not want to be in nursing full time, long term. And continued to pray and feel pulled towards seminary. We had moved to Birmingham already because of Megan’s residency training. So, I knew I was going to need to stay in Birmingham, looked into some seminaries and thought, “Well, this Beeson place seems great.” So, I threw in an application. And just kind of prayed through that and I think kind of came to the final conclusion while I was working in ICU that I would apply. And if I got in I would take this as a direction to move. >>Doug Sweeney: Wonderful. All right, Dr. Megan Ward, tell us just a little bit about your story, too. We’ll get to how you merged your story with Sandon’s story in a minute, but let’s start with just you. How did you come to faith and start thinking about what the Lord wanted you to be doing with your life? >>Megan: Yeah. So, I also didn’t grow up in a Christian household. My siblings were a good bit older than me. I think in high school my family just went through a lot of difficulties with my brother and there was a lot of questions that I had about the difficulties he was facing that my family couldn’t really answer really well. My aunt and my grandmother are believers. And they kind of asked me to go to church with them one day. And I felt like the more I went with them the more God was really opening up my eyes to that he was the answer and that all the anxiety I had I could really find true rest in him. So, I became a believer in middle of high school. And then started just trying to see what that looked like as a young believer. And went to Austin College in Sherman, Texas. I didn’t know what I wanted to do but just wanted to help people and I was interested in science and good at science. And so my mentor was like, “Well, find a place where your passions and your talents align.” And so just tried to be open handed with the Lord and he just kept opening doors. I applied to med school and got in, thankfully. And went to med school in Austin. The Lord really just shaped me kind of throughout college and especially in medical school to really lay down my life for him and try to serve him especially in a world where medicine can seem almost sacred and so to fight that and really use that as a tool to serve him. So, that’s kind of how I got into ... >>Doug Sweeney: That’s great. So, by the time you went to med school you and Sandon were married? >>Megan: After my first year of med school, yeah. >>Doug Sweeney: All right. And then you began thinking probably together about how do we do all of this stuff we’re passionate about as a couple? How did that go for you early on? Was it obvious – you’re a nurse, I’m going to be a doctor, and we both care about the Lord, and we both are interested in taking care of people? Or was it just this long process where you’re trying to figure out how to merge your two interests? >>Megan: Yeah, I think, Dr. Sweeney, you would think that it would have been more obvious to us but I think the Lord was really just trying to humble us I think. We hadn’t had much exposure to missions really before ... we were believers but our church in Austin really opened our eyes to, hey, this is what y’all could do. I think as we were both growing in our fields we started to realized, “Oh, this could really be a way to serve God.” So, when I was looking for residency programs at the end of medical school we really took that into consideration about having fellow Christians in medicine to surround us and then missional opportunities. >>Doug Sweeney: All right, let’s hear just a little bit about ... once you did start figuring out what the Lord was doing, not only in your individual lives and careers but in your sort of marriage as well and using you together to serve spiritually and physically in people’s lives, how did you make that first step that you took towards “let’s do some medical missions” and sort of experiment with this and see what God has for us here? What was the first thing that you did that really made you feel like, yep, this is something we need to do. Let’s commit to it? >>Sandon: Let me give a little plug to the pastorate. It was a sermon we heard about John the Baptist doubting Jesus, if he was the one that was to come. The story that while he’s in jail he sends his disciples asking essentially, “Jesus, are you the Messiah?” Are you this person? And it’s interesting in that story that he doesn’t say, “If you are, then come free me, don’t let me die.” He just says, “Are you the one? Because if you are, regardless of what happens I understand I’ll be able to get through it.” And Jesus’ response is interesting, too. He quotes prophesies from Isaiah “excluding the captives will be set free.” He says, I am the one but you are not getting out of jail. You will die there. I think the push of that sermon is more or less, if you really believe Jesus is who he says he is then I guess in a sense why are you not giving yourself fully unto him? We heard that message while we were contemplating moving to Birmingham to go to Megan’s residency, which lives intentionally in an underserved part of town, in which also is great because it incorporates medical missions. So, a month out of the year are given just to do that. Which sounds great on paper until you actually realize you have to live in a difficult place and you’ll be kind of uprooted pretty frequently. So, it fluctuated from first on our list and last on our list. And we heard that sermon and realized that I think at least for me I was just trying to serve myself and kind of just maybe idols of comfort. And yeah. So, I think it was hearing that sermon, choosing the trajectory there. >>Doug Sweeney: Megan, same sermon, same effect? Your driving home from church and you look at each other and start talking? How did it go? >>Megan: I think I was definitely more open to the idea but wanted unity in that decision because it was a big decision. And so Sandon and I had actually a few days prior kind of wrestled with, okay, where are we going to go? And there was a lot of just I think unsettled feelings in our heart. And so we were praying and like, okay, let’s see over these next few days to weeks what the Lord reveals. I think both of us were struck by that sermon and just felt the Lord really ... we were both weeping in the sermon and didn’t talk the whole time and afterwards were very much like, well, I think the Lord made that obvious of just our willingness to do what he was calling us to do. So, that was really encouraging. >>Doug Sweeney: Super. Well, I want to hear a little bit about your experience doing medical missions. I have our listeners in my mind when I ask you these questions. I’m hoping we’ll be able to talk about these things in a way that helps people listening to this figure out what the Lord wants them to do about it. Even if it’s just praying more fervently for people who are doing the kind of work that you’ve been doing. Or maybe it’s getting involved beyond prayer in a more active way as well. But let’s start by just asking you – what kind of medical missions have you done? What’s your experience been like? And then I’ll get around to asking you about how should our listeners get involved and what should they do about the stories that you’re telling here? >>Sandon: Sure. >>Doug Sweeney: What was your first trip? >>Sandon: The first trip was in the Middle East. Had a very kind of different tenor of some of our trips. Where we were was pretty hostile to Christianity. But where we were also was in need of medical help and care and assistance – so on and so forth. And so it was a very unique opportunity because they were willing to overlook the status as Christians. >>Doug Sweeney: So, I wouldn’t have had that opportunity because I didn’t have the same thing to offer that you two had. >>Sandon: Correct. So, medicine kind of built a bridge to get into those areas. We were still practicing medicine but we were just as much sharing the gospel overseas there. >>Doug Sweeney: Wow. And getting in trouble for it or doing it quietly enough so that people didn’t notice? What do you do when you’re in that kind of setting, a person, a doctor trying to be faithful Christians? >>Sandon: Sure. Yeah. I feel like to some degree case by case, but doing it discreetly, quietly enough, but not being embarrassed about it. And again, the patients were happy to get ... some were happy to get both. Some were happy just to get the medical care. But yeah. >>Megan: I think the long term missionaries that were there that we came alongside and were working with we obviously wanted to make sure that we respected things so that they could stay there and use medicine as a tool to continue to be able to share the gospel with these people. So, we kind of went with their lead. But there are definitely some instances, especially with our home visits, where we had to be extra cautious with just our, the way we went in and out and conducted ourselves. Yeah, to not draw extra attention. >>Doug Sweeney: Were you two the only medical people on that trip or was there a team that you were a part of? >>Sandon: There was a long term team who were medical and then we actually went with another couple who were also medical from the residency. So, we were able to kind of go. So, some power in numbers, too. But also a game of inches, right? Just taking time. And then also nice that it’s protective, not just for the providers but also for the families who you’re working with. Because should questions arise it was conversations with doctors and nurses, not necessarily a conversation exclusively with Christians. >>Doug Sweeney: I remember when you were speaking to the students about a month ago you also talked about being in South America on a trip. Can you tell us what you did there and how that got arranged? >>Sandon: Yeah, South America was fun, again a different environment. Where we were was very corrupt politically but there wasn’t persecution based on religion, per se. So, the issue was not necessarily being Christian. I guess the issues were more sometimes centered around being an American. And so we spent some time in some larger cities there. But the part that we really felt we were able to provide the most help was kind of traveling down the Amazon River on a small boat with a group of pastors, translators ... I think we had one local doctor with us. And we were a group of a social worker, nurse, and three doctors. And we just kind of go down the river, find a village, pull off, and it was pretty routine. We would kind of host a church service and host a clinic for however long it took. Sometimes all day, sometimes it was a small village and it was just a few hours. And then get back on the boat and do it again till we hit the next village. >>Doug Sweeney: I remember, Megan, hearing that this did require some sacrifice on the part of both of you. There are some illnesses that one is more susceptible to in other parts of the world than one is susceptible to in urban America. What was the experience like for you? Obviously, you were the real doctor there, so everybody depended on you for lots of things. But you took ill for a while as I recall. >>Megan: Yes. We kind of tried to anticipate it but sometimes you just can’t predict those things. So, it was very kind, the hospitality of the Bolivians we were with that helped care for me. But yes, a lot of our stomachs aren’t used to some of the local cuisine and especially things we were catching out of the river or getting from local villages that don’t have clean water or ways to pasteurize things and such ... had some ill effects for us. But thankfully the way it happened it was only one person kind of out at a time. So, the rest of the team was able to still facilitate good medical care and spiritual care during those times. >>Doug Sweeney: It sounded like you were able to meet a lot of needs, spiritual and physical, just being there, having some of the medicines that you had with you. Tell us just a little bit about the way the Lord used you in people’s lives. >>Megan: Yeah, we were ... it was nice. Everyone was just so grateful. A lot of the villages hadn’t been seen in a few years because of the pandemic. And normally government boats came out to the villages every so often. But it had been a long time because of the pandemic and so a lot of the patients were pretty sick and needed to be seen, especially the elderly. So, we had medicines available for them and we would see as many people that came to the clinic as possible. A lot of the kids as well had complications from the unclean drinking water and just all of the insects and different things that kind of are really unavoidable in their villages. So, we tried to provide education on just hand hygiene and clean water and ways to help prevent some of these infections. Especially amongst adults as well who really ... things that we take for granted in the United States. So, it was really humbling to see how the Lord could work through us in that way. >>Doug Sweeney: You’re obviously pleased enough with the privilege of serving the Lord in this way and excited enough about the prospects of continuing to serve the Lord in this way that you have more of this planned in the future. We talked a little bit, Sandon, before we began recording about a trip you have coming up to Tanzania. Give us just a little second about that one. What are you going to do? >>Sandon: Yeah. So, through Beeson but also the affiliation with Beeson is through a professor of social work at Samford who is also a church member. So, we’re really excited to both showcase and support Beeson but also support just a fellow sister in Christ at our local body. This will be an interesting trip because Megan will be going with me providing medicine but I think whereas I’ve kind of been splitting things both medicine and spiritual for me this will be an opportunity to just kind of focus in on teaching and preaching. And, too, in what seems like a cultural context that is pretty patriarchical and hostile towards women. So, hopefully just teaching and kind of speaking and pushing back against cultural norms that devalue women seems to be the emphasis of what I’ll be doing there. >>Doug Sweeney: Will you be in one spot or traveling around? >>Sandon: We’ll be in two. We’ll be on the island in Lake Victoria, which has established a girls school for a week and some change. And then mainland which has the support of the local church, spending time with them for a week and some change. >>Doug Sweeney: All right. Megan, insofar as you’re praying these days, trying to discern how God is leading, trying to figure out if there’s more of this in your future, what are you sensing? What are you thinking? What are you feeling? How much medical missions do you want to be doing? >>Megan: That is a great question, Dr. Sweeney. (laughs) I think we have been really just honored to have the opportunities we have had thus far in my training and career and we are thankful for getting to go to Africa here coming soon. I hope that we can continue to have some of these experiences. I think we’re just trying to wrestle with the Lord of what he may be calling us to. I think right now not necessarily long term missions but I think we do really want to continue to support the work of the great commission across the globe where the Lord is working in these really hard to reach places. And just trying to be open handed with ... since we do have medicine as some use of a kind of gateway to get to those hard places just trying to continue to revisit with the Lord of if he may be changing that calling for us. But we’re happy to kind of do these trips as we’re able and continue to support our local church members and other people who are there long term. >>Doug Sweeney: So, Sandon, what difference does seminary make in all of this? You could do what you’re doing, right, without any seminary education. You could evangelize and have a good gospel witness. Have you thought a little bit about ... now that you’re pretty well through seminary, why did God bring you through seminary and what difference does that make? Maybe particularly with respect to medical missions? >>Sandon: Sure. Like I said, medicine is very helpful in regards to building a bridge to get into some places of the world where they’re happy to have healthcare providers but not so much Christians. But even though medicine is a ticket into some of these areas I don’t know if it necessarily means that means you should be going and planting a church there and doing those things. And so I’m trying to watch my language. I don’t want to try to make pastoring out to be this sacred duty. I don’t want to put too hard of a line between- >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah, it’s pretty sacred though. (laughter) I think most of us would agree. >>Sandon: (laughter) This hard demarcation between pastors and then the laity. >>Doug Sweeney: I got you. >>Sandon: So, yeah. I want to be careful doing that. But just because you’re a doctor doesn’t mean you’re a pastor. And vice versa. So, yes, there are people who can get into difficult parts of the Middle East who can provide both healthcare and spiritual care. But that doesn’t necessarily mean, right, that you should be planting a house church and doing that. Obviously, vice versa with pastoring to medicine as well. And so I suppose being equipped from Beeson I think allows me to kind of navigate those a little bit more. I think we’ve spent enough time with medical missions where we’ve unfortunately seen some of the ugliness of the medical missions as well. We’ve seen some of the fall out of a group of well meaning healthcare practitioners getting to a difficult place. And praise God that was great and they’re evangelizing and doing things. But the kind of church aspect, the house churches that they were in fell apart because there were no shepherds. And so that’s the difficulty. I think that’s where Beeson in particular, seminary can come into play to being equipped in order to help facilitate health and growth in that as well. >>Doug Sweeney: Yeah, that’s good. So, I’m thinking about our listeners, Megan, and part of the reason we do the Beeson Podcast is to let them know what the Lord is doing at Beeson. But more importantly, the Lord is doing things in our listener’s lives and just in case somebody listening right now is feeling prompted by the Holy Spirit to get more involved somehow in medical missions, any practical advice about how they can? What they would want to think about before they do? What they would look up maybe on the web or talk to their pastor about if they feel like this is something for them? >>Megan: Yeah. I think there are a lot of good medical mission organizations out there. I think honestly I’d probably first start with their local body. Because there is usually at least some long term missionaries or people who have been abroad, so they have connections and usually there is some kind of medical aspect of that. But if not, I think yeah on the internet kind of finding a few different organizations that help support that whether that’s ... there’s obviously lots of good mission organizations – IMB, Frontiers, Pioneers, Global Missions Health Conference every year where all of ... a good number of the medical missionaries come together in Louisville every year and so that is a great way to get connected as well. So, those are just a few things off the top of my head. >>Doug Sweeney: What kinds of gifts and skills can be put to good use on some of the medical mission trips you’ve been involved with? What kinds of people really ought to consider whether the Lord wants to use them in these ways? >>Sandon: Sure. All kinds. I mean, yeah, especially thinking of listeners in mind. I think it could be easy to maybe get in the trap of hearing even just my wife who is a medical doctor saying that you need to be a medical doctor exclusively to be able to serve overseas. >>Doug Sweeney: That rules most of us out. >>Sandon: Exactly. We had a funny experience when we were in the Middle East where they had lots of doctors and they had no nurses. So, there were doctors waiting to see people and there was no one who could triage. And so I got to be the VIP for a day. Nursing of all kinds. Medicine of all kinds. That includes not only medical doctors but where we’ve been has been in great need of physical, occupational therapy and that’s a rarity. I haven’t met any of those people. Dentists are incredibly helpful. And in our time we’ve maybe met one or two dentists who are serving overseas. Even something like veterinary medicine. I think that’s something we can take for granted in the United States. >>Doug Sweeney: I haven’t thought about that before, that you would want a vet on a trip like that! >>Sandon: Yeah. I mean, right? >>Megan: Especially with farm animals, things like that, yeah, agricultural. >>Sandon: That’s the livelihood, right? You kind of live or die by your farm and the health of it. So, having veterinary medicine there as well. I’m sure I’m missing some, but I think there is all sorts of medical backgrounds that really are in dire need. >>Megan: Translators, social workers ... >>Sandon: Yeah, lots of social workers as well. >>Doug Sweeney: Thanks to both of you for your faithfulness to the Lord in doing these things. It’s just wonderful. I do pray a lot of our listeners will get involved and as Dr. Megan has said, a good place to start is with your pastor, your local church. See what they’re doing. But then there’s lots of other groups as well who are active in doing these sorts of things. So, listeners pay attention if maybe the Holy Spirit is at work in your life right now prompting you in this way. So, Sandon and Megan, we always end these podcasts interviews in the same way. We have the edification of the listeners in mind. We ask our guests what’s the Lord doing in your life these days? What is he teaching you these days that might be a word of encouragement for folks who are tuned in? Megan, should we start with you? What’s the Lord doing in your life or teaching you these days? >>Megan: Sure. I think I could even tie this into missions, Dr. Sweeney. I think in our culture and even with our experience abroad there’s a lot of drive to want to do more and check boxes and continue to fill your days with activities. And I think the Lord has really put on my heart especially these past few months of learning how to rest in him and just be restored and filled up by communing with him. And especially I think most people listening probably and everybody here has worked hard their whole life to get where they’re at, which is great but also recognizing those are gifts from the Lord and being willing to just kind of take a deep breath sometimes and really recognize what He has done and continue to be able to sit in his presence. That’s what he’s been trying to teach me lately. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s a good word for all of us. If you’ve just made it through med school and residency, wow, that’s a real special thing that’s going on in your life these days. That’s great. Sandon, how about you? What’s the Lord teaching you these days? >>Sandon: I think I could kind of close where I began in regards to if Jesus is the one with our listeners in mind. If Jesus is the one, then being willing to pursue what he’s calling you to do. Even in times of difficulty. I mean, that’s something he’s been teaching me my whole life. But a lot more especially these last few years as we kind of uprooted from Texas, moved into a difficult to live in neighborhood, have embarked on some medical missions, in some regards even come to seminary. So, him being the one doesn’t mean that life will be easy. I think lots of what we’ve done has been pretty difficult and has really kind of caused us to have to die to ourselves, but if he’s the one, it’s worth it. And so being willing to ignore the flesh and hear Christ calling and moving in that direction. >>Doug Sweeney: That’s a great word. Thank you, Megan and Sandon Ward, for being with us today. Thank you for your faithfulness day by day but in medical missions as well. Listeners, thank you for tuning in. Ask yourself where the Lord wants you to get involved in some way or another. Even if only by praying fervently for those who are doing this work in medical missions. We want you to know we’re praying for you. We love you. We say goodbye for now. >>Rob Willis: You’ve been listening to the Beeson podcast; coming to you from the campus of Samford University. Our theme music is by Advent Birmingham. Our announcer is Mike Pasquarello. Our engineer is Rob Willis. And our show host is Doug Sweeney. For more episodes and to subscribe, visit www.BeesonDivinity.com/podcast. You can also find the Beeson Podcast on iTunes and Spotify.